Flesh vs. Spirit?

[Robert Williams]

Here's (yet) another topic that (at least to me) could use some clarification.

For the past few years, I've been sitting under heavily Gnostic-influenced teaching (as I imagine most "Christians" do). One point that has been hammered into the congregation is the whole "Flesh VS. Spirit" battle.

There is one instance in particular that I have strongly disagreed with, that has prompted me to ponder the way flesh vs. spirit should be understood. In 2 Corinthians 12:7-9, Paul writes about his thorn in the flesh that he asked God three times to remove and God's reply, "My grace is sufficient; My strength is made perfect in weakness."

According to the doctrine of our assembly (set by the pastor), Paul's thorn was not some ailment in his body, but rather his flesh itself. In other words, Paul found it difficult to do what he knew he should do because of the resistance he experienced through his flesh (and it's desires) to what is right. Supposedly, Paul told God that if his flesh just didn't hinder him so badly, he would be better off, but God told Paul that he should just lean on Him for strength to overcome the weakness of his flesh.

In studying the difference between Hebraic and Greek (as well as modern Western) thought, that viewpoint doesn't ring true as valid for a devout Jew who was expert in the Law as Paul was. Granted, I'm not exactly sure what the proper Hebraic viewpoint of "flesh vs. spirit" is (which is the purpose of this thread), but the more I study, the less credible the scenario mentioned above seems.

The problem with its being in error, is that it is then used as a foundation for other beliefs, which when layered, get further and further from the truth. Also, other verses are used to support this idea which are probably also being taken out of context, adding to the confusion.

Here are a few of such verses:
(Rom 7:14-18 KJV) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. (15) For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. (16) If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. (17) Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. (18) For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

(Rom 7:25 KJV) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

(Gal 5:17 KJV) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

(Gal 4:12-14 KJV) Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. (13) Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. (14) And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

(2 Cor 10:2-3 KJV) But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. (3) For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

I realize it is a lot to ask to sort this confusion out, but could we get a summary (or a message, wink) explaining the Hebraic viewpoint of flesh vs. spirit and maybe how the Gnostics perverted it?

Thanks and shalom!
Rob

[A.W. Bowman]

Me too!

[Robert]

Originally Posted by A.W. Bowman

Me too!

who's going to preach it?

[Robert]

I can’t believe I never answered this question. Sorry about that. The idea of flesh being bad and spirit being good is kind of a mish mesh of Gnostic and Monastic teaching.

Walking in the flesh is a Hebrew idiom which is said of those who are in covenant with God but don’t follow the laws contained within the Torah. Walking in the spirit was another Hebrew idiom used of those who are in covenant with God and do follow the laws contained within the Torah. People of the first century who encountered Paul knew this.